The difference, though, between the US and UK is in the US they have an ever changing team of writers, but in the UK it's usually just one or two stalwalts like Carla Lane and Richard Curtis; or with blackadder a close knit team: Ben Elton, Richard Curtis, John Lloyd, and Rowan Atkinson.

Well, they do have more writers working on a series, although I wouldn't say they're 'ever-changing'. Frasier, Cheers, Mash, etc all had a core of two or three writers who wrote quite a few of the scripts and oversaw a wider group of fairly regular writers. And yes, it's true that Britcom series tend to be written entirely by one person or a team of two. But the question has to be why we persist with that format. The very earliest US sitcoms, like Sgt. Bilko, showed that collaborative writing (often with the actors contributing too) worked exceptionally well. Yet we don't seem to have caught up.

Terry

The very earliest US sitcoms, like Sgt. Bilko, showed that collaborative writing (often with the actors contributing too) worked exceptionally well. Yet we don't seem to have caught up.

From what I've heard Kenneth Cope say, I believe the TV series Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) was done like that. I've always suspected that Ronnie Barker might have had some input in Porridge, too. Some of the verbal jokes had his hallmark on them.

But I wouldn't say that the US approach is better. Their comedy usually sounds much more forced and formulaic, to me. The canned laughter might help to give that impression, admittedly, but I've rarely seen any US sitcom that made me want to watch more. The only exception that I can think of is Holmes and Yoyo, which only had one series.

Alex

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Oh, and The Munsters. But only the original 2 series. The later ones were just as formulaic and unfunny as any other US sitcom.

we don't seem to have caught up.

Hmm.

I know where you're coming from, but I think it is also fair to say that there is a homogenising process underway due to the larger teams. There is an argument that the larger teams make for a more consistent, high-quality product but at the cost of personality.

For example, though the characters and situation are different, the feel of "Two and a half men" versus "Frasier" is more or less the same and it would be easy to supplant a few chunks of script quite easily. By contrast, I don't think you could superimpose any of the script from Red Dwarf onto Blackadder or Coupling (though, as I said earlier, I think Coupling was replicated in the earlier series of Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps).

Equally, the consistently high-writing that you cite for Frasier _is_ achieved in some rare exceptions like Radio 4's Clare in the Community. (Current episode: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00snrjy for another day)

It occurs to me that rather than simply copying the US format, it should be adapted and enhanced to maintain the best of both. By which, I mean:
1. Initial concept and at least the first series written by a small "British-style" team that includes the series originator
2. Only scale-up the team to an "American-style" writing group once the essentials of the comedy are established.

There is still the danger of the Jasper Carrott phenomenon (he was funny and original, then he got others to write for him and became samey and old) but hopefully much reduced.

G

PS: In the interest of developing future comedic greatness in WW even if not the world... You're all welcome to join in on this: http://www.writewords.org.uk/groups/155_335026.asp

Ronnie Barker might have had some input in Porridge

I think he quite frequently posted scripts into the BBC under a pseudo-anonymous pen-name.

Yes, he wrote under the pseudonym 'Gerald Wiley'


There are excellent US screenwriters, like Aaron Sorkin, of The West Wing fame - at least, for the first 3 and a half series before he left - but they work with a team which irons out the script. It does put an individualistic stamp on the series.
Another great one is the Gilmore Girls, which relied heavily on writer/creator/showrunner Amy Sherman-Palladino and her husband Dan. However, when they went all 'executive producer' and dropped the actual writing, it nose dived in the 7th and final series.

As far as I'm aware, there was no overt 'Gerald Wiley' input into Porridge. I was referring to the fact that (a) he was by then an established writer, and (b) he was well-enough known as an actor that any suggestions he made would have been taken seriously. Also, quite a few Porridge word-gags sounded very much like the kind of stuff he and Ronnie Corbett used to do in The Two Ronnies.

Alex

Soz, Rosy!!!!

I think there are some great American sitcoms too. But I love the slow, Northern humour of an Early Doors or a Royle Family. I think it's characters I recognise. I loved Ronnie Barker in Porridge too and Uncle Bryn in Gavin and Stacey.

I loved Rosanne Barr's sitcom - the first white-trash sitcom on American TV, probably. I couldn't stand Friends because although it made me laugh I couldn't stand the whiney men's voices and didn't get their lifestyles. So I guess it's all character growth and believability for me as much as snappy one liners which can pall. I adored "Cheers" and "Taxi" but again, it was as much for the characters as the jokes.

Yes, why *are* they showing another series of "Life of Riley"? I sat through half of two and couldn't believe the direness of it.

Yup, I liked Rosanne.
Two and a Half Men also has it's moments, as does The Big Bang Theory.
The new US sitcom Modern Family has been very good.
Scrubs is sort of the Ali McBeal of sitcom writing - loved the episodes with Brendan Fraser.

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...loved Ali McBeal with Robert Downey Jr.

I didn't get Scrubs or Ali McBeal, I'm afraid. My kids love Modern Family but I haven't seen it. Did anyone see Love Soup? I know it's more comedy dram than sitcom but I loved it.

US sitcoms often feature highly intelligent characters, whereas Britcoms tend to feature mostly stupid ones, e.g. Men Behaving Badly. I can't imagine British writers pushing themselves enough to come up with a character like Sheldon in the Big Bang Theory, who's not only a brilliant creation but has to speak highly intelligent lines. I also agree with Naomi about Scrubs. The episode where the Brendan Fraser character dies actually made me bark out loud with surprise at the twist: it was so brilliantly written the writers even gave you massive clues that it was coming, which I completely missed.

Gaius - you may be right about similarities between Frasier and Two and a Half Men; but for me, it doesn't matter because they both make me laugh a lot. I think Two and a Half Men is very underrated here: it's essentially all about sex, and filthily so at times, but the writing is really sharp, in that you rarely see the next line coming, even though you know the characters so well.

Terry

US sitcoms do have that north-south divide, though. It's ok to have a dumb character so long as they're from Texas, like Woody Harrelson in Cheers, and My Name Is Earl.

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And does anyone remember Northern Exposure - set in Alaska?
That was classic too.

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Oh, and loved The Golden Girls - and Betty White was still going strong in series like Boston Legal

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....she is the only one still alive from the GG cast.

Porridge.

I originally watched because I had a teenage crush on Richard Beckinsale but I LOVED the series. Was heartbroken when he died suddenly and the show wasn't the same even with the brilliant Ronnie Barker but it was still very, very funny and, probably because its setting is a prison, I don't think it's dated.

My second choice is Only Fools and Horses. Made me cry with laughter at times.

I think the "sharp writing" has a lot to do with very strong characterization; the writers made us genuinely care about Fletcher, Godber, Del Boy, Rodney etc.

Britcoms tend to feature mostly stupid ones

That's true of modern British sitcoms; not of older ones. But TV is generally more patronising, these days, than it used to be. In addition, it has never been particularly cool to be intelligent in Britain, whereas it mostly has in the United States (and elsewhere in the world). Compare, for example, the English phrase 'big head' with the French phrase 'grosse tete' (which means the same thing, literally, but has completely the opposite connotation - it's a compliment).

Alex

One of the best written series I have found is Red Dwarf, not so the first series when the cast were settling in to their characters, but from series two when Robert Llewellyn came in as Kryten.
My second is Dad's Army, I still think the scripts are excellent.