I added something to my last post which may be of interest.

As for the monster, he should represent something, if only the young boy's fears - see Emma's link to the Editorial Anonymous blogpost.

<Added>

As a parent I like PBs to have layers of meanings (although presferably not preachy). And as a children's writer I always advise that the prose in a childrens story has to work twice as hard as that in a story for adults. In a PB, because there are even fewer words, they have to work very hard to earn their keep - the same with the pictures.

<Added>

If a parent is reading this story to a child and they ask 'What is the monster?' they need to have an answer - preferably something obvious they can get from the text.

<Added>

Bear in mind, your ms will be competing against thousands of similar ones featuring children and monsters - and hundreds featuring baths - and it is the completeness of the plot that will distinguish them from each other.

<Added>

Sorry if I'm badgering, it's an interesting topic.

Hi Tris,

I went and put my comments on the posting under the Children's Group section, which seems to mean you can't access. Anyway, I see some other comments have been made on the same lines as some of my points.

Well here are my notes in full:

Hi Tris,

Have now had a think on the text and storyline - here are my thoughts:

Storyline

A quick summary of the surface storyline for me would be that Connor likes being dirty, doesn't like baths, finds a monster in the bath who causes chaos. Connor chases him away.

After a lot of consideration as to what the story is about at a deeper level, and one which the child will absorb in his/her own way, I thought the most likely interpretation is:

Connor likes being dirty and smelly and is often in trouble for being so, and making a mess (house perhaps as well as garden)

He gets sent to have a bath which he doesn't want (perhaps he likes the feel of grime, dirt,worms or perhaps he just has more interesting things to do - sort out his trophies from the garden eg snails, interesting mouldy fruit, mucky bit and pieces)

Because he doesn't want a bath, he creates a monster there (no problem with this - story would move straight into what he is thinking at a sub-conscious level - children will make the leap easily - eg "Where the Wild Things Are") The idea of the monster could simply be to get him out of having a bath, or maybe it was created because that is how Connor sees himself, as a "horrible monster" because he is in trouble.(I personally prefer this second interpretation - that the monster is somehow a part of him.)

But the monster has a life of its own and causes chaos, which Connor puts right by getting rid of it.

And Connor finds out for himself that it is best to have his bath rather than conjure up monsters that cause frights and chaos.


There are other possible interpretations, and you may well have other ideas. It is just that I do think it is best to find out what the story is really about underneath as that can bring out some improvements in the storyline. In my view the storyline is sort of Ok, but has the makings of being much stronger.

My particular concerns are:

1) The mother is chased. As we are talking about 4 -8 year olds and a bedtime type story, it will be understood that the parent who is the child's natural protector, is leaving him to deal with a monster. I think it will be difficult, if not impossible, to place this with a publisher because of this. I would suggest that the monster chases the cat or dog or parrot. A child may well understand that he is the protector of a favourite pet and be able to accept a certain responsibility to act the hero in those circumstances. The responsibility of protecting the parent is too big for him, I feel.

Alongside this, I think the escalation of events need to be slightly different - damage to property is lesser before scaring the pet - so that the biggest threat comes last. I also thought that this could be the point at which Connor needs to step into protect against the monstrous thing he has created.

2)I think it would be stronger if Mum was in the first picture admonishing him for the damage and dirt, perhaps the picture could be him trailing into the house, which is otherwise pristine. (He could be reacting against cleanliness generally if the house was overclean and tidy). It would be easy to see that he is sulking or angry (wants to hit back) or feeling horrible because he has upset his mum and feels he is bad - like a nasty monster.

My view would be that he needs therefore to be much dirtier, making a lot of mess where there isn't any, and in trouble with the parent. Children would easily relate to making a mess, and being in trouble.

3) Please excuse my not quite understanding how he gets rid of the monster.
"The monster takes a great big sign" didn't create a picture for me - sorry.

I think that there is a golden opportunity here to do something really clever, to have Connor really redeem himself in some way, by getting rid of the monster by a trick,(the mud from the garden could cause him to slip right out the back door, or Connor could show him all the mud in the garden and he thinks it is wonderful and off he goes to play in it... there's probably lots of better ideas) or by facing him up (perhaps standing up to him - I can certainly see a picture in my head of the great big purple monster with small Connor in comparison who is weilding something - perhaps a towel - which the monster doesn't like - perhaps the monster doesn't want to be dry or something of that nature)

This could be a big moment - a "wow!" moment, very satisfying and safe to the child. (A picture book needs a few of these - the first appearance of the monster is another great one, and where everything is balanced on top is another.)

4) The end does need to bring the child back to safe and comfort of home as it normally is. In "Where the Wild Things Are" the main character is accepted back into his family and treated normally, misdemeanors passed over, life goes on. Something similar could happen here. Connor could have his bath and goes downstairs in pyjamas, and sits with his parents in front of the TV with a hot drink, his mum's arm round him, all safe and welcoming - or all clean tucked into bed by his mum.

5) I see that this is set out as a 32 page picture book, which is absolutely the right length for it (12 double spreads) but I think, if you wanted, you could have a final single spread of the back view of the monster departing, maybe covered in mud, something to show that the child is safe, the monster well and truly gone.


Text

I think this does need quite an indepth review. I didn't check every stanza for stresses and rhythm, but will do if you would like a view on this. It did strike me though that the verses weren't completely identical throughout. I thought the first stanza which set up the rhythm was good, but after I had got that in my head, it varied later on.

Also sometimes the first and third, and second and fourth lines rhymed, and sometimes the first two and second two. Ideally, this should be uniform throughout.

It is quite difficult to get a rhyming picture book published (publishers like to set up co-production deals which means translation problems) but when it works well, it really does work - take "Room on the Broom" - rhyming picture books can and do outsell prose books.

I know that once the book is written in rhyme it is pretty impossible to rewrite in prose as the rhythm is so strong in the writer's head, so all that can be done is make the verse just as good as it can get. (sorry I seem to be getting very preachy and nothing is set in stone of course!)

The word length is pretty good, but if you could bring each verse down to two lines and say all that needs to be said, that would be even better. If you can look for repetitive phrases - "Monster in the bath" or maybe the monster makes a noise that will delight the child, and he/she will join in as it is repeated that will be another bonus.

I did think that some of the language used was a little forced to get the rhyme "In his despair" is one example, and might well not be understood by the child.

Well, I've gone on a bit about the problems, but there are huge pluses - the pictures are great, love the purple monster, love the wellies and the frog, and the design of the pictures and words on the page. The page turning is also excellent, each one leading to the next. There are lots of fun ideas which will have the children giggling delightedly - all the things the monster gets up to. It is well worth developing it a bit more, in my view.

I will do some more work on the language if you want, let me know.

I have had the advantage of learning picture book techniques from several excellent teachers and well known writers - no artists though! I have decided not to pursue this area at the present time. I have commented on several picture books in progress on this site - but please just take anything that is helpful and ignore the rest.

Apologies for any typos, writing this in the middle of the night. All the best, Issy.

Hi Tris,

Would be really great if as an artist as well as a writer you could comment on a couple of picture books - Young Children's Group and Children's Group are the places to find them.

We don't often get the artist's view.

Thanks

Issy