Swearing…yawn.

Something that makes me sigh, while reading so many otherwise interesting or stylish pieces of writing, is the endless use of swear words. I might enjoy an imaginative use of oaths to point up a character or intensify a quarrel; what I mostly get is a repetitive employment of the word ‘fuck’ and its derivatives.

People who would not dream of using any other noun/adverb/adjective in successive sentences or even within the same one, have somehow developed a blind spot for this one word. If you substitute the non-word ‘bluck’ for every instance of the f-word (or similar) in your text, you will see what I mean.

I once worked in a welding workshop. The students there, to underline their macho occupation, used the f-word as a qualifying adjective for every item of equipment and as an adverb for each activity they engaged in. After a while it sounded about as strong (and as childish) as the word ‘nice’. In conversation, you learn to mentally subtract such dull repetitions. When you read swear words, each one automatically alerts multiple bits of memory—most of them irrelevant to the text. Dealing subconsciously with these unwanted memories is distracting and tedious work for the brain, and after a while it will turn off the alerting system and the swear words will cease to work in any way at all.

The word has a different force on a page than in our ears. In Brian Keenan’s autobiographical account An Evil Cradling, for instance, swearing has an honourable place. In a TV drama set in e.g. a welding workshop, it is boring but real. On the lips of every character in Joe or Jill Bloggs domestic novel, you begin to wonder if Bloggs is under the impression that realistic writing should be a tape recording of real life.

All in all, it fucking pisses me off! End of rant; feel free to explain to me why I am wrong.

Cheers, Hilary

Hilary

In the main I agree I often think that the continual use of swear words is caused by an inability of the writer to think of suitable conversation so they take the easy route and insert the inevitable Fuck or whatever.

Having worked in many different places from building site to transport company very few men swear as much as they are protrayed in current literature and TV. It would be wrong to say that they never swear of course they do and women are often worse than the men, but what I have noticed is you usually get one or two who swear a lot and the rest dont.

Fuck of course is a derivation of the arabic word to open or close ( yes it means both) Equally many so called swear words are anglicicsed bastardisations of words form other languages, butthen so is English.
david

I always thought it was Anglo-Saxon, so it's interesting to learn about its Arabic origin. My dictionary says it was acceptable English in the 16th century, but I think it's like any other word - it depends how you use it. It has a certain amount of power which is lost with over use. I try to be sparing with it for this reason, but sometimes it's neccessary for the character or situation or just for the shock effect.

I do agree that when overused the writing becomes tedious and boring, and that's the point at which I usually give up reading.

to quote from Wikipaedia...

There is an evident connection to the German word ficken, and to the Latin futuere (hence the French foutre and Italian fottere), but there is considerable doubt and no clear lineage for these derivations.

It has cognates in other Germanic languages, such as Middle Dutch fokken (to thrust, to copulate), dialectical Norwegian fukka (to copulate), and dialectical Swedish focka (to strike, copulate) and fock (penis).

There is perhaps even an original Celtic derivation; futuere being related to battuere (to strike, to copulate); which may be related to Irish bot and Manx bwoid (penis). The argument is that battuere and futuere (like the Irish and Manx words) comes from the Celtic *bactuere (to pierce), from the root buc- (a point). An even earlier root may be the Egyptian petcha (to copulate), which has a highly suggestive hieroglyph.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/fuck#Etymology


<Added>

was wondering with regard to the reference to buck - meaning to pierce .. whether buckle come from the same root

<Added>

am off to look for the hieroglyph

i do love these forums..I agree repetitive swearing loses its affect and just makes me roll my eyes to heaven and not read anymore..it neither shocks nor impresses me. But there sure is a case for it adding to a text too and that can be very effective.

But what I love about these forums is how we go into other realms and weave something else from some basic fabric..I have just been fascinated reading your link Andrew..

Ellie

Fascinating Andrew, thanks for that link.

the word 'fuck', on its own, is basically a replacement for a word you can't think of on the spot. Essentially, it's often not used offensively at all.

The only problem with the word, and why I don't use it often at all in my writing, is that always looks angry on paper.

When some minor niggle irritates me slightly, you might hear me murmer, in a half annoyed, half cynically amused sigh "Ohhh, fuckin' helllll".

However, if I just wrote it down it looks like this:

"Oh fucking hell"

Maybe it's just me, but when I read that back aloud, it reads "OH FUCKING HELL!", which isn't what I said at all.

That, in my humble, unimportant opinion, is why swearing should be carefully handled on paper.

You've got it, IB, it is often far more aggressive on paper than the context demands, though it sounded absolutely right in the writer's head. Somehow we need to be both the writer and the naive reader of every thing we write. Difficult! Cheers, Hilary

PS, to air another niggle, we often fail to give the poor reader enough of the basic time, place and speaker information, simply because it is so obvious in our own writer's minds.

Hello,
I'm new to this forum so I thought I'd jump in on this discussion.
I read recently that the word 'fuck' derives from a Saxon word meaning 'to beat against' which I think is quite appropriate.
I've got a very good book called 'Self Editing for Fiction Writers' by Browne and King (ISBN 0062720465) which has a section dealing with profanity. Their opinion is that it's fine to include it in dialogue if appropriate to the character but, if overused, can lose much of its impact... quote -
'think how much power a single expletive can have if it's the only one in the whole fucking book.'
Cheers,
Dee.

Perhaps David should put a yellow warning box above this forum...

One technique, when you need insert swearing, is to do it indirectly:

"Edward swore quietly, under his breath."

Then the reader can make it sound the way they want it to sound. I'm surprised more authors don't leave it to the reader this way, because intensity and obscenities change over time and place, amking the book inappropriate very quickly, by becoming either too mild or too extreme.

I hope this works for someone, Regards, JohnK.

John, this is a helpful idea, and would work some of the time. Apart from changes through history, individuals have such different experiences of the use of strong words that one particular word could end up tickling one reader and slapping the next one in the face. I can see the problem of 'show don't tell' looming, though, as this would be 'telling not showing',so one couldn't get away with it too much.

I think Browne's advice, via Dee, is also spot on and that is the one I will try and follow.

Cheers, Hilary

I agree, I don't like to see too much swearing either in print or on screen. I did have this debate with myself when writing chapter 2 of my novel. Originally I substituted other words for fuck but reading it back I realised it was wrong for that character, in that situation not to use it so I put it in. I think it works but only because it's necessary. Again, this is all down to realism and being true to your characters.

I think you're missing the point, Frankie. A word is deemed a 'swear word' when it is used in a derogatory and abusive sense. For instance: the word 'twat' was originally a derisive term for Native American women, as was the word 'squaw', which is a direct translation of vagina in one of the native languages (sorry but I don't know exactly which one). Vagina is a medical term for an area of female anatomy, in the same way that the word penis relates to male anatomy. They are not swear-words, and should never be used as such. Check your dictionary if you don't agree. 'Cunt', on the other hand, originated as a derogatory - and, by definition, abusive - term. The reason that the word is becoming acceptable and, therefore, less offensive, is because womens' groups are recognising it as an acceptable alternative to vagina. Acceptance and use of an abusive word by the relevant section of society (in this case, women) reduces its power and renders it ineffective. The word 'fuck' which, as I undertand, originates from a Saxon word meaning 'to beat against' has lost much of its impact (sorry about that pun) because of its general use in all levels of twenty-first century society.

Please put me right if I have misunderstood what you said, but I get so pissed off at implications that, for example, 'dick' is OK but 'cunt' isn't. I am not a feminist; I am a woman and I like men. To be honest I love men. That's why I live with one. But some of my friends are lesbian and, from their experience, I can understand why so many of them feel the need to defend themselves against men.

To get back to the point you started with - it's a very delicate subject to deal with in fiction and we, as authors, must research thoroughly before writing about it. We tread a very fine line here.
Dee

Frankie,

I had the same problem. What you need to do is log out (top right-hand corner) and then log back in. Your details should then be updated. I'm assuming you are a full member...
Dee.