I do agree about the wind. But since you can feel so differently about a piece which hasn't changed, I think one thing that tells you is that, actually, how you feel about it is all about your state of mind/morale/self-esteem/confidence that day, and not necessarily very much to do with the story's actual merit.

Oh, absolutely, but I don't think I'm unique in that. Probably every writer has put a piece away thinking it's good, read it the next day and thought it garbage. Or the other way around. Are you not afflicted in that way, Emma?

Probably every writer has put a piece away thinking it's good, read it the next day and thought it garbage. Or the other way around. Are you not afflicted in that way, Emma?

a) No, in the sense that I don't think in terms of "good versus garbage", because that gets you nowhere: those sorts of value-judgements come from a place which is all about your general state of mind and mood, and not much, necessarily, to do with the actual quality of the writing. "good" vs "bad" also so easily spills into a self-esteem-focused judgement of yourself, which is irrelevant to the task at hand.

b) Yes, in the sense that I think in terms of "works" and "doesn't work". And then I think about what makes a doesn't-work piece not work. And once you've done that, you're halfway to making it work, because as Richard Sennet says, a large part of crafsmanship is the process of problem finding; once you've found the problem, solving it is straightforward, if not easy.

Also, I really do have "creativity is mistakes" tattooed on my brain these days. So if, the next day, I read something and think, "Gosh, that really doesn't work," then I just think "Okay, there's a long way to go still. Bother, I hoped it was nearly there. Now, what the hell am I going to do about it?". I can be extremely fed up, but that doesn't mean I classify the writing as garbage, it just means it was process writing that was inevitable on the road to making it work. It's just work-in-not-quite-as-fast-progress-as-I'd-hoped.

Actually, I rarely think all that differently, in global terms, about a piece the next day from how I thought about it when I was writing it. I'll certainly make a note today, on yesterday's work, that says "Is this really boring?" or "Not convinced she'd do this", but that's not calling it garbage, that's just me being a writer. But it'll probably still file clearly under the same works/doesn't-work heading. Obviously there are a hundred things that I'll change in revising when I do come to revise it weeks or months later: it may not look very much at all as it did yesterday. But essentially I'm still inside the bubble, and my only judgements are about the detail of how well it is or isn't fulfilling my sense of what the bubble is, until I've finished the first draft of the whole project, and slapped it into rough shape.

That's when I start making judgements about whether it works overall - whether this project was worth doing - whether the project is too lumpy/quiet/melodramatic/trivial/obvious/obscure/badly structured/long(it's never too short!)/meandering/abrupt... And the judgement can still be that I was spectacularly wrong, and it's time for a total rebuild. So be it; you buy Scrivener and get on with it. But even that happening shouldn't persuade a writer that what they write is garbage: just that they haven't made this piece work yet. That happening persuaded me many years ago that I'm slow and stupid, it's true, but I've learnt to live with that.

Emma and everyone, thanks so much for your inspiring comments - the attitude that, while immersed in the work, we need to believe in it and in ourselves to get it done. We can worry later.

I've started my new draft a day earlier than planned, and that attitude is really helping me. I'm trusting myself. Thanks!

Well, yes. My 'it's garbage' is just shorthand for everything you've described at length, Emma.

Deb, you're welcome.

'it's garbage' is just shorthand for everything you've described at length, Emma.

To me 'garbage' - although I think of it as rubbish - is something you throw away. The thing about pieces of writing that don't work is that you don't throw them away; ergo, they're not rubbish. You make them work.

The thing about pieces of writing that don't work is that you don't throw them away; ergo, they're not rubbish. You make them work.

That's a great attitude, Emma, and very liberating. I will try to always think that when reading work of my own that needs "help"...

I mean, obviously if you try something out, and it doesn't work, and you realise you're really not that bothered about trying to make it work, then it's different - you might well give up on it.

But that's not because the writing's rubbish, it's because by giving it a go, you've discovered that the project doesn't have enough energy in it to keep you going.

If the idea is worth something, it'll come back to you some day quite naturally, and you'll realise you know what it needs.

I know exactly what you mean.

I've tried a few things out with my novel... changing a character's gender, for instance. Third instead of first person. Changing one character's family circs and setting of her home. Even though I discard when it doesn't work, it was worth doing, and I do keep the discards just in case I change my mind again! But it's good to experiment and play around sometimes, if only to ensure you've made the right decision about something.

I love the idea, though, that no writing is rubbish. It may not be what you want right now, but if it's quality which is the problem then it can just be improved. It's that same freedom that comes with the idea of first draft, but I'm now finding I can do it with further drafts too.

It's that same freedom that comes with the idea of first draft, but I'm now finding I can do it with further drafts too.

Yes, I think that's so true: drafting is a process of getting closer and closer towards the sense you've had from the beginning of what this project could be. And sometimes you just can't get close enough, not yet, not now. But you will, if it's a project worth doing, though you may need to do something completely different for a while: some other project which will teach you the things you now know you need for that first project.

All my successful pieces have been at the very least my second proper go at a project. A Secret Alchemy has really important elements from every single one of its six predecessors - including the whole of Elizabeth Woodville.

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Meant to say, going back to the title of this thread, it's very true that half is talent, half is thick skin, but the complication is that one important aspect of creative talent is having a thin skin...

it's very true that half is talent, half is thick skin, but the complication is that one important aspect of creative talent is having a thin skin...

Yes, I have thought that too, Emma. If we're not sensitive then we can't create believable characters and get inside their heads.

I guess we have to "manage" our skin thickness - be thin when necessary and thick when necessary. We need control over it.

be thin when necessary and thick when necessary.

I remember my MPhil tutor saying that you need two heads to be a writer - a writing head, and a business head.

And one of the business head's most important jobs is to protect the writing head; to find ways to cope with the emotional side of the business stuff, and know when that's more important than squeezing out the last commercial opportunity.

Interesting. Another way of looking at the creative versus the logical side. Also needed for editing, and so many aspects of writing life.

It's horribly easy, every time you see some clever author or aspiring writer doing lots of clever promotional stuff, to think "Oh, help, I should be doing that"...

I'm trying to train myself to then think "Well, maybe. But what does my writing self think and feel, knowing that my writing self wants readers, but also needs to be looked after and protected?"

Just jumped a blog post off this thread by expanding what I said further up, so thanks Debac and everyone for the inspiration!

http://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/2013/07/good-versus-garbage.html

Oooh, lovely - thanks Emma. I will read and enjoy

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Love it! Thanks so much, Emma. I am printing that out for my learning journal...