ashlinn, I'm just pointing out the difference between writers who would not continue if they were not being paid - which was your original point. And writers, like myself, who have continued to slave away despite there being no financial reward. Yes, we all hope to make some money eventually, just as those who buy lottery tickets hope they will win the jackpot despite the vanishingly small chance of that happening. But even if I knew for certain I would never make a penny from writing, I would not stop. And your premise does not explain all those writers who never even submit the finished manuscript(s) to an agent for fear of rejection. How can they ever expect to get paid for the work they have put into it?

- NaomiM

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Having said all that, perhaps there is a very fine tipping point between the two, and once one has a bite of the cherry - like a gambler having a win - it is hard to go back to nothing?

:)

Naomi, sorry if I'm belabouring the point but that wasn't my original question. I was questioning if writers would continue to write if the industry changed to the point where none of them were being paid and there was no possibility of earning a living. I think a lot of them wouldn't. That tiny hope keeps a lot of us going.

Oh well, if you put it that way....yes. At least the novelists would.

I get you now, Ashlinn. Think I just needed my bed!

I'll jump in if I may? I'm with you on this Ashlinn. The article made interesting if slightly disappointing reading. Having completed one novel and another 'in progress' I have taken a career break purely to focus on my writing. This obsession of mine was gradually taking over and I want to focus so both books are as good as they can be. It was my choice to take the break and I'm not bleating about that, but there will come a point when the bills can't be left on hold any longer and I will have to make a judgement call. I have never aspired to thinking of writing as like winning the lottery - ie making a fortune if successful.However i have thought that, if it does transpire that I have 'potential' or 'talent' or whatever you want to call it, that I may be able to earn a modest living, ie pay those bills! So yes, for me sadly, if I found that I couldn't even do that, I would have no choice but to think again.

Of course, Tori, jump in any time you want. I love writing but it comes with a heavy cost in terms of sacrifice of friends, social events and other good things in life. I've written one novel already and I'm writing my second now. If this one doesn't succeed in being published then I think I will stop and get my life back for a while. Even if I do stop though, I won't regret having spent this time writing, I've learned a lot.

I think I'd certainly continue to write if there was no hope of getting paid for it, but it is certainly self indulgent day dreams of an albeit statisitically improbable advance that gets me to the computer when the commitment is flagging. If I ever do get published, I'd like to be able to work a little less and write a little more, but other than that, my ambitions cash wise are small.


B

I think I'd certainly continue to write if there was no hope of getting paid for it, but it is certainly self indulgent day dreams of an albeit statisitically improbable advance that gets me to the computer when the commitment is flagging. If I ever do get published, I'd like to be able to work a little less and write a little more, but other than that, my ambitions cash wise are small.


B

I suspect there's a widening gap appearing between what might be called 'hobby' writers, those who write but would say that publication is not their primary motivation and those who set out with the main objective of being 'professional' writers, investing in degrees, MAs and so on, and determined to be published.

Perhaps writing is just developing as an industry? Until now, the business has relied on authors producing the work unpaid for the sheer 'joy' of it. It all comes together in one lovely moment at the end where everyone makes a packet!!!

Most people don't want to live their lives anymore waiting for that 'hapenstance' that moment of discovery. They want to 'make' it happen, to force the situation under their control. People don't want to write for posterity anymore they want the rewards for their achievements while their still alive, understandably.

I'm sure there will always be 'hobby' writers who break through but it's getting tougher. Those writers who take the courses and so on will certainly always be at an advantage but then, there's always nepotism!

Works better than any other method...

sorry about the carp spelling

Jemima, not sure I agree with this. To be honest, I don't know any 'hobby' writers, certainly not writers of fiction, maybe of diaries or the more public version, blogs etc.

All the writers I know would like to be published, partly as a validation of their writing and partly as a way of finding time and funding to do what they love.

Until now, the business has relied on authors producing the work unpaid for the sheer 'joy' of it.

Do you really think this is true? I'm not sure. I think the vast majority of writers, before and now, have always wanted acknowledgement through publication and hence earn a minimum income to live. Most of us are totally aware that the chances of becoming an earner like JK Rowling are lower than winning the lottery three weeks running. In fact, the chances of success (I define as being published and earning a minimum wage income) are lower than ever before so you have to assume that people are not writing as a 'get rich quick' scheme.

People don't want to write for posterity anymore

I don't think I would trust anyone who 'writes for posterity'. A distinct whiff of preteniousness? It's not the writer who decides that, it's the readers.

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Sorry, Jemima, reading back over, I don't mean to sound so negative. I'm just continuing the discussion. Welcome to WW, by the way.

It's also about respect, if writers are only valued at about £4,000pa I guess that puts us nowhere. Artists have many more chances to sell their work direct to the public. They can sell off a market stall, local exhibitions. It only takes one person willing to pay the asking price.
Writer's need publishers. It's very depressing, I would not expect to earn a fortune if I was lucky enough to be published. I would expect to be paid a fair price for the time and effort involved.Would I keep writing if I would not get paid? I don't know.
Kat

Kat, I think you're right, it is about respect, respect for work done. And I think that writing is work even if it's work we love doing. Work is not 100% pleasure and neither is writing.

I don't think I got my 'tone' quite right!

I meant 'hobby' writers in the sense that if they are the sort of person who says 'I don't write to be published' - to me, they are living in denial, but I've heard it said and seen it written a zillion times.

If one does take them at face vale then they must mean that they write for some other reason? i.e. posterity, joy, the pleasure of recording ones thoughts

I've heard all of this said - and it's really just about fear of failure and/or false modesty

I term these writers 'hobby' writers

Also, I count writers as artists - I didn't mean 'visual' artists exclusively

They didn't write expressly to be acknowledged only when they were dead but some writers have achieved 'recognition' only after they died - Kafka for one

Some writers have always kept their day jobs - we didn't always live in celeb/riches world - TS Eliot is another - and their motives were never financial

that's not being pretentious, it's just acknowledging that some people have different motives and are perhaps less driven by popular success - we all, however, want the praise of our 'peers' (whoever they may be)

It's not being arsey - it's just recognising that different people have different objectives and there is still a place for art in literature, not just money

cheers for the welcome

Just clarifying - a hobby writer is quite likely someone who would, in answer to your original question, say, yes, I would write even if there was no hope of publication.

That's what they would say, and you'll find them here and on every writng forum

Personally, I don't believe them - but I think they live in fear, or perhaps they really know that they will never be published and so they protect themselves by saying "well, being published isn't everything" + "I write because I find it soothing, enjoyable etc etc etc"

I don't believe them but I'm cynical