Terry,
I'm simply trying to make the point that publishable mss DON'T always make it to the top of the slushpile. Having a nudge from a trusted source has to make a difference. That's all. Of course they can still reject. But I think it HAS to help. It didn;t work that way for me, but I do think that agents are getting more and more choosy and conservative these days and if you can get a bit of help this way, why not?

And although C'stones didn't play any direct role in Dark Ride getting published, they did give me useful advice on an early report.

Er, are there any rules on this site about members using forum discussion to promote their businesses and denigrate their competition??

Seems like a rather shoddy little commercial war is being played out here.

Well, the site owners are monitoring this thread and will act if they feel anything that's said here is in breach of site rules/etiquette.

It's a shame that you've just decided to rather bluntly label the discussion as 'shoddy' rather than discuss the actual points being made here. I can only speak for myself but I'm not making my points as part of a commercial war. I'm talking from the principles I operate under as a freelance editor/coach. In essence, these mean that I only work with people I believe I can help, and on the basis that we first agree on the best scheme for their purposes. I am passionate about helping writers to produce better writing and to encourage them to never stop learning.

The reason I think this debate is useful is that it's very difficult for a new writer to make his or her way through what have become somewhat murky waters where publishing is concerned. There is nothing wrong with offering services for a fee but the question sometimes is whether or not those services are actually needed. The provision of editorial services is an unregulated industry and therefore the more openness there is about how it operates can only be a good thing, in my view.

Terry

It's true this thread has been informative and quite useful.

It's also true that some promotion and some denigration is going on, and it's annoying.

I can't see why Cornerstones can't operate whatever business model they want

What, are wannabe writers in some way more vulnerable and in need of protection than everybody else in society? Buyer beware operates here just as with any other purchase, and contracts must abide by the law.



[Edited by david bruce at 13:37:00 on 29 January 2013
Reason: legal]

Just a note to everyone here - please be aware this is a public forum, please steer well clear of anything that could be considered at all defamatory. We simply can't afford to leave comments that have even a hint of defamation about them, hence the fairly heavy editing throughout this thread.

Buyer beware operates here just as with any other purchase, and contracts must abide by the law.

And potential buyers can discuss whether or not they have anything to be wary of.

Not certain that I get your objections here, lanternjaw. It's not a deal that appeals to me and I have stated why. People can disagree and have disagreed, but discussion of the deal is valid.

Not certain that I get your objections here

Anybody with savvy knows that there are certain individuals who inhabit sites such as this with the principal purpose of soliciting business. They look and sound like ordinary members, they swim amongst as and chat and smile and are forever being 'helpful', but their main aim is to bring attention to themselves and the commercial services they have to offer.

It's pretty much impossible to stop them.

And it's annoying.

Anybody with savvy knows that there are certain individuals who inhabit sites such as this with the principal purpose of soliciting business. They look and sound like ordinary members, they swim amongst as and chat and smile and are forever being 'helpful', but their main aim is to bring attention to themselves and the commercial services they have to offer.

In case this is aimed at me . . . I joined this site as an ordinary member about ten years ago. This was before I worked for Cornerstones and before I decided to work for myself. In any case, there is no site rule here as far as I know, and nor should there be, which prevents genuine members from informing other members that they have a new book out or that they teach creative writing or offer editorial services, etc.

Terry - we do actually have rules against this. If we allowed commercial posts or advertising, the forums would pretty quickly get overrun with spam. Point 18 of our terms of service:

The forums and archive are not a venue for advertisements in any way. It will be the sole discretion of WriteWords and its moderators as to what constitutes an advertisement.

David, thanks. That's clear. However, it would be helpful if you could say a little about what you consider to be fair notification by members of what the are selling, so to speak. I've always assumed it's okay for us to mention books we have out or that we offer various services.

I think if a long-standing member were launching a new book or new service it would be reasonable for them to mention it (obviously the same does not apply to someone who joined yesterday), but it's the gentler on-going 'in-passing' mentions which we prefer to avoid please.

It's the gentler on-going 'in-passing' mentions that we prefer to avoid please.

Yes.