Re Steve, I think Herr Cowell may regret not listening to Shazza...

WHAT FOLLOWS IS ALL OPINION AND ARGUMENT WHY I DON'T LIKE ROBBIE/ GERI/ POSH/ BRITNEY etc

"I sit and talk to God And he just laughs at my plans My head speaks a language I don't understand"

It is bland! The metre, the rhyme, even the meaning.

That's what I would have written as a second year philosophy student. In fact, I think I have - I'll see if I can find it and look at the similarity.

'I sit and talk to God' must have be written thousands of times before. God laughing at us is old hat. And the supposed schizphrenia in my head and 'I' (which I guess means head/ soul a division that Descartes came up with a long time ago) is just every song there ever has been. Plus, please rhyming 'plans' with 'understand'. There is no depth there - none at all

I really feel that we accept the bland as inciteful (sic) too much. We don't challenge enough - we almost don't feel able to make mistakes so we go over old ground and just can't be creative. But if I want just music to entertain me, I'll listen to Destiny's Child, even Stone Roses because at least its not like trying to swim through air.

It is not just Robbie/ Geri/ Posh I find dull (I think the Americans are better at pop music than us actually). And there are a few pop songs I like - you only need to look at my iPod. Also an indie band called The Libertines. They bore me as well. There is nothing there...nothing to get angry at, nothing to get emotional about. I just get so bored. I might as well put a Black Lace party album, or eat Rice cakes cos I know I have to eat but I don't really want to enjoy it.

here's a lyric
Halleujah (Leonard Cohen)

Now I've heard there was a secret chord
That David played, and it pleased the Lord
But you don't really care for music, do you?
It goes like this
The fourth, the fifth
The minor fall, the major lift
The baffled king composing Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew you
She tied you
To a kitchen chair
She broke your throne, and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
You say I took the name in vain
I don't even know the name
But if I did, well really, what's it to you?
There's a blaze of light
In every word
It doesn't matter which you heard
The holy or the broken Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
I did my best, it wasn't much
I couldn't feel, so I tried to touch
I've told the truth, I didn't come to fool you
And even though
It all went wrong
I'll stand before the Lord of Song
With nothing on my tongue but Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Now maybe there's a God above
But all I've ever learned from love
Is how to shoot at someone who outdrew you
And it's not complaint you hear tonight
And it's not some pilgrim who's seen the light
It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah.
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah

Whatever floats your boat, JA. But see, Robbie inpired you to write!

Adele.

<Added>

inspired even.

I don't agree with you on The Libertines, James. Listen to the way the songs are performed, the duelling vocals reveal pain and hurt and humour that go beyond the simplicity of the lyrics.

Yeah, and it's also, like, got a good beat, yeah.

No, no Anj - I don't think popular fiction speaks only to the simple in us, rather than the thinker. Yikes!! I believe good popular fiction speaks to the reader at many levels including the deeply philosophical and sentient. Dog in the Nighttime is a perfect example of that. But what makes popular fiction work, and why it is such a talent to be able to write it, is that any reader at any level of interest/understanding/sophistication takes away something from the experience in terms of perspective or emotion. My 13-year-old has not got the same pleasures from reading Pompeii or The Lovely Bones or, indeed, Dog, as I have, but she got something that worked for her, and moved her in a very different way. That's what I meant:-) We should all aspire to write popular works, whether highly literary or lowest common denominator. Discuss:-( sxx

Shyama, I agree. I'm trying!

Adele.

<Added>

Stops to think. Other people should write whatever and however they like, but don't expect me to enjoy it unless it gives me a satisfying emotional experience.

To be fair Adele, the debate inspired me to write. You could have been talking about Geri and I'd have had my say!

Ohh Amos. That's the problem with arguing points of view, people presume that you want them to become universal. To me, Libertines are bland. Might not be to you which is fine to me. But I can't get excited about them, or hate them. To me, its like listening to Menswear! Or Sleeper! Or even Echobelly!

If you can argue a point of view which convinces me then i am up for changing my mind. Just no one has done that yet for Robbie or Libertines (though I am a Destiny's Child/ NERD convert).

JA, we did Geri a few weeks ago. Where were you?

http://www.writewords.org.uk/forum/51_27964.asp

<Added>

Re your points to Amos, I you feel open to persuasion, listen to Robbie's music - that's the most powerful argument.

James, don't want to get into a discussion of which artists I like better, and have all respect for Len, but I honestly can't see why the Len lyric is better - its structure and language is more complex, but that isn't of itself a quality. I had to read it a number of times, meaning it was less accessible, and in the end couldn't detect anything more or less profound than in the Robbie lyric. The lyric Adele quotes takes a fairly similar sense of disillusion and abandonment and conveys it far more quickly - and if by doing so Robbie can take the same message into the mainstream, for me, fantastic

Have no thoughts, happily, on The Libertines.

Bottom line is you can't argue the point over music - you either like something or don't.

I don't buy into all that 'The Libertines are the most important rock group since...', but I do like the music.

I also like Grace - when in a positive and strong state of mind!

Er, who are The Libertines?

Don't buy the Libertines, Adele, I've got them on at the moment and they're not special enough. You might like the Kings of Leon though - similar genre but more interesting:-)

lIBERTINES - Indie band - great soap opera to watch. The two singers have a love/ hate relationship and one of them broke into the others flat to steal stuff to feed his drug habit. Not sure if they are friends now or not. Think he is sorting himself out again now though, for a time there, there was a touch of the Kurt Cobain inevitability about things. Hopefully not now though

RW music. Honestly I have listened to a lot of it, though i am not about to go out and purchase an album. Up to now, nothing I have listened to has made me love or hate it. Hasn't he ripped off Gary Numan now? But you're right; up to you what you see in things. That Halleujah lyric is, to me, amazing in its depth and I love it to pieces. Agreed simplicity works as well, as long as it inspires something in me that's new.



<Added>

Kings of Leon are better, though again not great to me. Although, better than the Strokes whose songs all song the same. I love the White Stripes though

Shyama, thanks for the tip!

JA,

as long as it inspires something in me that's new.

Perhaps you are an Ubermensch with feeling that we mortals don't possess. But I'm a simpleton, and although I may look for new triggers, I am happy enough to keep reliving familiar feelings. Like hunger - must go hunt and gather my lunch!

Adele.